November 14, 2017 at 2:55 pm #5922
Above statement was quoted from the article “Food high in uric acid surprises”. Just want to clarify if beans/nuts/seeds/peas/mushrooms/grains/roots are classified as vegetables, and if so, their purines do not increase uric acid in our bodies. Thank you for your guidance.
November 15, 2017 at 2:22 pm #5929
The bottom line is: eating meat, fish or seafood is associated with having higher uric acid. Eating vegetables isn’t.
The bit about vegetable purines is a bit confusing.
I guess the article is written that way because the word “vegetable” has been used in many studies in a counter-intuitive way. Keith might disagree with the following but I think you should read “vegetables” as “land plants” or simply “plants”.
Mushrooms aren’t plants. They aren’t necessarily bad but are more likely to have a dangerous purine content than plants. It depends on the type of mushroom. And dried mushrooms naturally contain a lot more purines than fresh ones. I’m aware of at least one study about people getting higher uric acid when they consumed mushroom-based food whereas I can’t recall a study showing elevated uric acid due to the consumption of plant-based food.
Likewise single-cell organisms like spirulina and yeast aren’t plants and can contain dangerous amounts of purines. Some algae might be more like single-celled organisms than plants so I’d exercise caution with dried algae as well.
In the end, it’s all about the amount you eat so anything dried or otherwise concentrated can more easily be abused.
Roots, grains, peas, seeds, nuts and beans typically do not contain a lot of purines in the first place. Potatoes, onions and carrots contain virtually none for instance. Seeds contain more purines since they typically contain little water but you would normally not eat a whole lot of dry seeds anyway seeing that they’re so nutritious.
You are actually more likely to consume dangerous purines by eating certain vegetables such sa broccoli, eggplant, aspargus or spinach than by eating beans and such. But consuming vegetables is generally healthy so purines are certainly not a reason to avoid vegetables.
November 16, 2017 at 8:39 am #5930
“Keith might disagree with the following”
No, I think it’s a very well-written explanation.
However, any gout sufferer who becomes obsessed with purine intake is missing the point. Rather like a car enthusiast who is only concerned with 0-60 times. I.e. the number has some meaning. But it is far from the whole story.
Hint, Sk Ling: Gout happens because uric acid in your blood is too high.
November 16, 2017 at 10:34 am #5931
That’s if people are even looking at the number… for instance Choi (who published quite a few papers about gout) called peas and beans “purine-rich vegetables”. The categories people use are ridiculous. Nevermind that it’d be the wrong number to look at (most of the modest amount of purines in soy is actually harmless guanine for instance). No wonder people aren’t finding clear evidence that “vegetable purines” do anything to uric acid!
The information out there about purines is so poor that it hardly matters whether “vegetable purines” increase uric acid. People wouldn’t know how to manage their intake.
November 17, 2017 at 6:15 am #5932
Thanks nobody for your very exhaustive explanation . Very much appreciated!
Thanks to Keith Taylor too for the hint, yes I’m very much aware of the co-relation of high uric acid and gout.
November 17, 2017 at 12:01 pm #5933
Sorry, Sk Ling, I was interrupted during my post and I didn’t finish my hint.
So, my point is that any discussion of managing purine intake is rather pointless unless you also discuss what changes you are trying to make to blood uric acid levels. Because, as mentioned, our bodies metabolize different types purines in different ways. In turn, that means different rates of uric acid production.
But, we must also consider other properties of many vegetables:
1. Protein intake encourages uric acid excretion (uricosuric effect). So high-protein vegetables will tend to encourage lower uric acid levels. But, this will differ between people, due to changes in the way kidneys function.
2. A diet rich in plants tends to be alkalizing, which also has a uricosuric effect.
November 17, 2017 at 3:44 pm #5934
Hi Keith, no apologies needed. Memory lapses happened when you least expect it!
Your link “some beans will naturally inhibit uric acid production” is truly an eye-opener. Thanks too for your explanation of the uricosuric effect.
November 22, 2017 at 2:05 am #5961
urankjj .ParticipantŦallars: Ŧ 29.64Rank: Researcher
I have to strongly agree with nobody’s bottom line assessment on this. Is diet a very influential cog to unlocking the mystery of the ‘gout in some humans and some not’ conundrum ???
November 22, 2017 at 10:56 am #5962
I’m a little confused what you are asking about, urankjj. Because I assume you are agreeing with nobody’s sentence:
“The bottom line is: eating meat, fish or seafood is associated with having higher uric acid. Eating vegetables isn’t.”
Now, that is a completely true statement of fact. But, I can’t see the link to your question about mystery and conundrum. So I wonder what you mean by that question. If it references something else (i.e. ‘gout in some humans and some not’), perhaps we should start a new topic. Because I can’t see what it has to do with purines from plant sources.
November 22, 2017 at 3:54 pm #5969
Jean ClyneParticipantŦallars: Ŧ 43.46Rank: Researcher
This topic has been around for awhile however every time I eat a dish high in beans, chickpeas and lentils I get mild pain, irritation in my hands and feet. This is really frustrating because being on a vegetarian diet, I am trying to get enough protein. This is not supposed to bother me but it consistently does, anyone else notice this? Spinach and mushrooms for example seem ok.
November 23, 2017 at 1:25 am #5971
I noticed something vaguely simlilar with lentils.
This isn’t about purines. Purine content varies across legumes but relative to the protein content, spinach is much worse. Some mushrooms are in a different league as they contain potentially dangerous amounts of purines.
If some foods bother you, there are many alternative sources of protein. The foods you listed have for the most part (soy beans would be an exception) a poor protein mix in the first place. What they are useful for is lysine (which is lacking in grains and nuts). And there’s lots of lysine in dairy. Skimmed milk, yogurt and such are generally recommended for gout as people consuming large amounts seem to have less uric acid. If you’re actually vegan, there are plants containing surprisingly large amounts of lysine (check a nutrition database).
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