Stopping Gout Together › Forums › Help My Gout! The Gout Forum › Diabetes, Gout, and Urine pH Levels
Tagged: Baking Soda for Gout Forum, Gout and ACV Forum, Gout with Diabetes Forum, Vegetarian Gout Forum, Xanthine and Gout Forum
- This topic has 2 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 2 months ago by Jean Clyne.
January 14, 2018 at 5:46 am #6328Chase MaclennanParticipant
Here is a theory I have about gout.
Milk is known to be beneficial to gout. A likely explanation for why milk is beneficial is that it contains orotic acid. Orotic acid prevents uric acid from being reabsorbed back into blood, so it gets expelled by the kidneys as urine.
I think that one of the ways the body balances the PH of the blood is the amount of orotic acid that is produced. Vegetables and other xanthine oxidase inhibitors block the breakdown of orotic acid into another chemical.
An alkaline diet, and baking soda is thought to stop gout attacks. I think this works by changing the PH in joint tissue and not lowering plasma uric acid levels. A different theory from mine is that alkaline urine helps the body remove excess uric acid from the body.
Vegetables contain xanthine oxidase inhibitors and I think this is why they are beneficial. I haven’t found any studies that show that baking soda lowers uric acid. It might have no effect or be counterproductive. I know baking soda does change the pH of urine though.
The kidneys balance the bodies PH level by controlling the amount of ammonia in the blood.
In Ornithine transcarbamylase deficiency, excess orotic acid is produced. This causes excess ammonia in the blood. Ammonia is alkaline. In theory, I am guessing that the body may produce more orotic acid on an acid diet than on an alkaline diet. This will cause more ammonia to be made.
So in theory for quick relief during a gout attack baking soda should work. If it used long term it might be counterproductive.
From the pathway it makes sense that a protein load (if it isn’t high in purine) can increase orotic acid levels and thus lower uric acid. I haven’t found anything that says explicitly that an alkaline diet lowers orotic acid. I suspect though that the body in part controls PH by increasing or lowering the amount of orotic acid produced.
It makes sense to me that on an acid diet, the body would produce more orotic acid. I know the kidneys filter out less ammonia as a way of balancing out the bodies pH. I suspect that orotic acid might be the signalling method for this.
In the one of the images in the link below you can see that alputerol (a gout medication) blocks the breakdown of orotic acid into another chemical. Other xanthine oxidase inhibitors probably do the same.
Orotic aciduria- causes, clinical manifestations, diagnosis and treatment
A High acid diet can also cause kidney stones and other problems. I am skeptical of using baking soda, lemon Juice, or apple cider vinegar (ACV) though to reduce uric acid levels. I can provide more references if people are curious.
A vegetarian diet is still good, but this could be due to other reasons besides it being an alkaline diet.
I haven’t found any scientific study on baking soda, ACV or lemon juice and gout. I think if it lowered uric acid levels this would be obvious and somebody would have proved it by now. I have found studies that an alkaline diet changes how different organs function and the pH of joint tissue.
Dairy has high protein levels and low purine content. Eggs are very acid producing. Eggs are generally thought to be gout friendly though. A vegetarian diet helps with diabetes by improving insulin sensitivity. This likely because a lot of fruit and vegetables contain xanthine oxidase inhibitors. I think this is a big reason why veterinarians are less likely to get gout.
Does this make sense?
January 14, 2018 at 6:19 am #6329Chase MaclennanParticipant
To add to the post.
I am explaining why I wouldn’t recommend that people with gout take acv, baking soda, or lemmon juice regularly. Kidney stones can form if the urine is either high or low in PH for a long time. There is one (or maybe more) study that found that an veterinarian diet is good for gout and helped with the removal of uric acid. I haven’t found any studies though for acv, baking soda or lemmon juice and gout. I am guessing that these are effective though for acute gout flares. A lot of people seem to think that they are in any case.
January 16, 2018 at 2:14 am #6334Jean ClyneParticipant
Super interesting about the ortoic acid, makes a lot of sense in explaining the benefits of dairy for gout, thankyou for sharing the information, it all helps in understanding its effect.
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