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    • #2170
      GoutPal Victim

      This is a general discussion for GoutPal’s Gout Victims. You can see if you are a Gout Victim in GoutPal Plan for Gout Victims.

      Gout Victims are not trying to control uric acid. There are many reasons for this. They might not understand the importance of safe uric acid control. Or, they might have been misled by false information from bad doctors, or other exploiters.

      The main purpose of this topic is to collect old discussions. Often, members post interesting topics. Then, they might allow membership to lapse. This is normal, but we don’t want to lose interesting discussions from lapsed members. So, we transfer them here. Also, we often receive Help Desk messages from gout victims that do not warrant a topic of their own. So, we also use this discussion for those.

      Most importantly, the Gout Victim discussions here tend to highlight examples of bad gout management. Because ignoring uric acid levels is dangerous. So I retain these discussions to try to persuade you to change your thinking. In particular, you will see very common situations where people get misled into thinking too much about certain food choices. But they forget that uric acid control by lifestyle changes has to start with a healthy foundation diet.

      If you think you are a Gout Victim, you should start your own gout topic. That way, you can get personal help to avoid more suffering. And, start to find Gout Freedom.

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      Don’t be a Gout Victim. Let GoutPal help you fight.

    • #607

      [feedback from Gout Helpdesk]

      I’ve been taking allinpurinol for a month but it does seem to help.

      Mornings are ok but by late afternoon my right and middle toe are inflammed, and red. The pain is unbearable… ibuprofen helps somewhat.

      I am not overweight. 65 years of age 5’ft seven and weigh 150.
      Played a lot of sports in my younger days.

      Drank beer with friends, and family but not excessive.

      • #629
        Keith Taylor

        Hi Paul,

        I’ll try to explain what is happening so you understand why you are getting gout pain after starting allopurinol. Then I’ll explain how to minimize it.

        Gout attacks start when uric acid crystals have built up over many months and years. Allopurinol eventually gets rid of these crystals, and that stops you getting gout pain. But, this will take time.

        Professionals refer to removing the burden of uric acid crystals, or sometimes “de-bulking.” It is your recovery period. During your gout recovery period, you need pain relief, which can either be preventative, or as you require it. Before I explain that, I’ll explain a bit more about your gout recovery period.

        Gout recovery is one of the most badly managed aspects of gout. I listened to a leading rheumatologist recently who explained that only 10% of patients get effective gout recovery treatment. This means that we have to take control, and ask for the correct treatment. Fortunately, unless you have other health problems, recovering from gout effectively is quite easy.

        The essence of good uric acid lowering treatment is to get uric acid as low as possible. That shortens the recovery period, and minimizes the time you are at risk of gout flares. I can help with a specific personal plan to manage allopurinol in a way that suits you best. It’s impossible to say how long that time will take. Therefore, you also need effective gout pain control.

        Ibuprofen is very effective at reducing gout inflammation. Usually it needs to be at maximum prescription strength to be effective. Though it can be used as a preventative, the best gout pain prevention is colchicine. I understand why many people want to avoid colchicine. However, if you want to use it, it can be incorporated into an effective gout pain control plan. In addition, for extreme attacks, you might also need a pain-blocker.

        I believe personal gout pain plans are important at the start of allopurinol plans. I’m happy to help you and your doctor to get the best gout treatment for your gout.

        Paul, if you want help with gout pain control, allopurinol plan, or both, please just ask.

    • #647

      [feedback from Best For Gout.]

      I have been drinking pretty heavy for the past 12 years 6-12 beers with spirits half pint or so just about every night, very bad and unhealthy.

      I have had 3 severe attacks over the last year, that’s how long I suspect I have had high ual’s. One flare went away on its own another very painfully flare forced me to quit drinking for a couple weeks. The attack I’m having at the moment has persist over a month, first two weeks HURT! Second two weeks had little pain but still lots of swelling and no movement, by the way the affected joint is a previously broken ankle in which I can’t put any weight on during a flare.

      But I stopped drinking beer and started my normal emergency gout diet: tons of water, cherry juice, no purines, foot way over head,colchicine, endocin. But, two days later and the pain is unbearable even with meds.

      My question, is this a long term build up of crystals dissolving causing the pain it hit instantly within a minutes.

      Thanks for any info or advice, and please not to much about alcohol, I have done days and days of research and been to a regular doc/er several times.

      I know how serious gout is it has caused me great depression as of late.


      • #681
        Keith Taylor

        “My question, is this a long term build up of crystals dissolving causing the pain it hit instantly within a minutes. ”

        It’s impossible to answer that question without knowing your uric acid level at the time. If forced to give an answer, I’d say “highly unlikely.” I say this because, nothing you’ve described will cause uric acid crystals to dissolve.

        You say you first noticed gout during 2015. I strongly suspect you had high uric acid levels long before that. It takes years for uric acid crystals to buildup. If you have more than one attack in a year, you should act immediately to get uric acid safe. If you do nothing, uric acid crystals continue to grow and multiply. They spread round your body so you get attacks in more places. There’s very little you can do to stop that.

        It is possible to control the pain, but you have to have a personal pain control plan that works for you. Your “normal emergency gout diet” is a mess! I know that’s a bit rude, but I want you to change your ideas.

        Gout attacks are usually related to what you ate and drank years ago. That certainly applies to purines, and potentially to alcohol. I have to hedge my bets with “usually” and “potentially.” Everybody is different, so the only thing that makes sense is a personal plan.

        In fact, you need at least 2 personal gout plans – one for uric acid control, and one for gout pain control. I’ll be very happy to work with you on these plans. Also on a diet plan if you want. Doctors often get overwhelmed with the details of effective gout management plans. I only get overwhelmed if you have medical problems alongside gout that I don’t understand..

        All I’ll say about alcohol is this: it has very little to do with gout. However, if you are drinking excessively, alcohol will lead to depression. Never drink more than two days in succession! That’s not gout advice, but I’m slowly becoming an expert in controlling alcohol-related depression.

      • #5447
        patrick kelley

        Purines Cause Gout

        Since finding out I had gout 13 years ago, I immediately researched what causes gout. From a layman’s standpoint, gout is caused by your bodies inability to expel uric acid through urination. Purines in the body create uric acid, the uric acid then works its way to feet, tail bones, hands, anywhere it wants to go for the most part. When you look at foods containing high amounts of purines, you quickly learn meats, fish, gravies, and liver are have some of the highest concentrations of purines. So what did do? I became a vegetarian. Right away I noticed a decrease in gout attacks. I’ve been a vegetarian now for 11 years. To ensure I get enough complete protein, I consume low sugar yogurt with 3 tbls of hemp seed, 2 tbls flax seed, and 1 tbls chia seeds, combined with a large glass of 1% milk. This combination gives 40 grams of complete protein each time I do it (x2). I’m 69 yrs. old.

        I also take 100 mg of allopurinol in the morning and 100 mg before I go to bed. When I take my allopurinol I consume lots and lots of water making sure my stomach has no food in it. Taking my meds in this manner ensures the allopurinol reaches my extremities quickly and effectively. If food is in your stomach the meds effectiveness will be limited. I love my vegetables and beans and almond butter. My gout is manageable. As most foods have purines, I don’t eat asparagus, cauliflower, and other veggies that are higher in purine contents as well.

    • #652
      Abhishek SIngh

      [feedback from Gout Guidelines.]

      Very Helpful

      Please help me to get control over gout, and uric acid level which is 7.6 mg/dl I noticed it is dangerous level.

      Thanking you!

      • #686
        Keith Taylor

        I need more information to be able to help you.

        Please login and let us know more about you and your gout history.

        You should act quickly. Uric acid above 7mg/dL is certainly dangerous.

        What have you tried so far?
        What does your doctor say about your gout and your uric acid level?

    • #708
      GoutPal Victim

      I was diagnosed with gout about 2010. I’m sure I had symptoms not recognized for what was at least 6-8 years prior, but had no idea what it actually was. I had surgery on the underside of my right big toe and they removed what the Dr. said was the consistency of toothpaste from underneath it. My gout has been in check with regular use of allopurinol, small changes in diet and some anti-inflammatory Drugs (Nambutone). The surgeons office/assistant told me that the white substance was basically in most of my joints. I am very overweight, also, which I know how problematic that is. I have a left knee that feels unstable but for the most part remains unswollen until such time that I get a gout flare. My question is that I have had issues with my left ankle. I kept waking up with pain that felt as if it was swollen, yet it wasn’t, but I experienced the pain when I walked on it. After dealing with this off and on, I discovered that messaging the fluid under the skin upwards on the outside of the skin to the ankle bone has provided a good deal of relief. I done this about four times in a month’s time and it seems to have discontinued the “sprained ankle” sensation and the pain it caused. Is this possibly Gout related and where does it fit in the Tofus spectrum? I have no crystallization breaking through the skin anywhere. My biggest issue is that I have to go up or down stairs one step at a time to keep things from swelling (in regards to the left ankle and knee). I also have to walk a bit slower than normal, or things will cause pain. Just curious about all of it, and where I fit into the spectrum? Thanks for your time. Mark

      • #711
        Keith Taylor

        Hi Mark, and Happy New Year to you. I hope we can make 2016 the year you finally get rid of all gout pain and discomfort.

        It’s great to see that you are taking allopurinol. That is the easiest way for most people to resolve tophi. By getting your uric acid level low enough, all your worries about gout will disappear. But, it takes time.

        You probably have around 14 years of uric acid crystals deposited all round your body. With allopurinol, you can cause these to dissolve, but you have to get uric acid as low as you can. The ‘toothpaste’ in your foot is certainly uric acid crystal deposits. Though you have no physical signs yet, you can be sure that uric acid crystals are spread round other parts of your body. The professional rheumatologists advice recommends aiming for lower than 5mg/dL until the uric acid crystal burden is mostly removed. Therefore, it makes sense to go for the maximum dose of allopurinol.

        The maximum allopurinol dose is 800mg per day in USA, and 900mg in UK. Doctors have the ability to prescribe off-label doses of higher amounts, or they can also add probenecid, which works for gout patients who are under-excreters of uric acid.

        Allopurinol dose should be increased slowly, with at least 2 weeks between tests. Blood tests should include kidney function, and liver function, as well as uric acid.

        Pain control is required until most of the uric acid crystal burden has dissolved. I was prescribed preventative colchicine for two weeks around each allopurinol dose increase. Outside that time, I was prescribed additional colchicine to take at the first sign of a gout attack. Even with the colchicine, some gout attacks might start. In that case, your Nabumetone is useful, and you might get even better relief if Nabumetone is supplemented with a compatible pain-blocker. Ask your doctor for a safe combination that allows you to keep active. Gentle exercise resolves gout pain quicker. It will also help you lose weight. Gradual weight loss (say 2 pounds a week) is one of the best things you can do for your gout.

        Mark, I hope this helps as a starting point. Every year, I help people control their gout, and allopurinol is usually the easiest and safest way to do that. It’s very important to control uric acid properly, and also to understand that pain control is vital until old uric acid crystals are dissolved.

      • #712
        Keith Taylor

        @mark-vannortwick prompted by doubts about correct allopurinol treatment, I’ve created an allopurinol treatment guide.

        I think it needs a bit more work to be all-encompassing. I especially need to include links back to the science that justifies my approach. Nevertheless, it should be useful for all allopurinol patients, and those considering taking allopurinol.

        I hope it helps.

    • #943
      GoutPal Victim

      Dear all,

      I was diagnosed with primary gout and primary hyperurecimia whatever the hell primary stands for. I am 27 years old and this was a real shocker at first especially since I was never overweight. Later on I realized it doesn’t matter.

      I got my first attack 5 months ago during a period of somewhat excessive drinking due to my cousin’s wedding whom I was best man. I got the attack one day after the bachelor party and at first I thought I had broken my toe. I was completely crippled and it was pain that almost made me cry.

      When I went to my GP she said she wants to make a uric acid just in case because the pain was at a very typical spot for gout.

      My uric acid came @ 500 during the attack. After the attack it slowly went up to 600.

      Following the attack I quit drinking completely and have event as far as being vegan.

      To no avail unfortunately. My uric acid is stuck @ ~ 600.

      Whatever I do without drugs it doesn’t go down. I really wanted to avoid taking drugs.

      After taking drugs for 2 weeks my uric acid went down to 320 however in just 5 days after stopping the drugs and full vegan diet without lentils & beans my uric acid was back to 600.

      Despite my uric acid I haven’t had a new attack. However, I get quick sharp pains in my toe’s and I have been getting permanent pain in my ankle. It is not like when I had my first attack. I was fully crippled then. At the moment while it is somewhat of a pain it is mostly annoyance.

      The other pains are very short-term (1 to 3min long) fast pains in my toes, sometimes in my elbow or wrist. They pass after that. I get 10 to 15 of these a day.

      I wanted to know if other people are experiencing anything like this? Is it possible it is something else, etc?

      [originally posted by lapsed member: Georgi Stoykov]

      • #945

        Hi Georgi,
        Sorry to hear about your gout attacks. I suffered from gout attacks myself due to dehydration and drinking wine and red meat. Since I was diagnosed from gout I had to start taking Alluprinol 200mg daily when pain persist I take NSAIDS for a three day term. Also am taking Glocosamine Sulphate 1000mg and Bromelain as supporting remedies against arthritic pain. My gout sudsided and now at present my uric acid stands at 240. Do not get discouraged by this monster, but fight him back and always consult your GP.

      • #966
        Keith Taylor

        I was diagnosed with primary gout and primary hyperurecimia whatever the hell primary stands for

        Primary gout is gout that is not caused by anything other than your own genetics. So, you have excess uric acid that has no avoidable reason. In those circumstances, playing about with diet is not going to have much effect. To have any effect, gout diet has to be planned in detail and must be part of a comprehensive gout treatment plan.

        Whatever I do without drugs it doesnโ€™t go down. I really wanted to avoid taking drugs.

        Pharmaceutical gout medications are usually the easiest way to go. If you do not take the right drugs at the right time, you are wasting time and money. If you want to avoid them completely, are you prepared to commit to time-consuming diet monitoring and adjustment combined with frequent blood donations?

        One thing you must not do Georgi, is avoid the issue. Your uric acid is dangerously high. If you do not deal with it now, your quality of life will reduce each year. After many years of increasing misery, you will die early.

        So, if you are not prepared to correct your inherited condition with proven pharmaceutical treatment, what will you consider?

        I’ve got the stamina to create a drug-free gout treatment program. I’ve not met anybody yet who has the stamina to follow one.

    • #1033
      GoutPal Victim

      I’ve been in severe pain for the last 10 years, my G.P doctor is useless when it comes to assisting me, he prescribed me a drug called Puricos 300 that I started taking & had a serious adverse affect on me. i came up in welts all over my body & was unbearably itchy, the itching caused the welts because I scratched through my skin.
      The other drug they gave me was Colchicine, which didn’t seem to have any effect, it also has side effects of a runny stomach all the time.

      These seem to be the only drugs available in South Africa.
      The drug that’s helped me the most is the cortozone pills ive been taking daily.

      I saw my Specialist Physician the other day because I have the problem of partial Kidney failure, I have 25% use of my Kidney so I also have to be careful with the Drugs I take.

      I had Carpel Tunnel Syndrome 2 years ago in my left hand, I was told by the surgeon that it happens to 80% of people because of working on a computer.
      They operated on me and did what they call a “release” It took about a year to get most of the feeling back in my fingers.
      The point i’m making is I now have Carpel tunnel in my right hand, I got to thinking that the swelling on my hands & wrists is so bad that it could be contributing factor to my condition. I remember when the Surgeon opened my hand up last time he mentioned that he could see that I have severe gout in that hand.

      Last night my Carpel Tunnel in my right hand was so intense I couldn’t lie down & sleep, I ended up after rubbing it with ant-inflammatory cream bandaging it etc.
      I ended up taking 6 cortozone tablets, propped my wrist on a pile of pillows, the pain subsided at 4.30am in the morning. I then managed to sleep until 7am this morning. i say the gout caused this.
      No i will be forced to go for an operation again but on my right hand this time.

      So getting back onto the Gout Medication does anyone have any suggestions that drug-wise can help me.

      I’m desperate as I find I struggle to work as i’m constantly in pain. I went to a rheumatoid arthritis specialist who told me there is nothing they can do for me she was a total waste of money & time.

      • #1183
        Keith Taylor

        Rheumatoid arthritis is different from gout. You need a gout specialist. If you can’t find one, we’ll have to work something else out.

        The main question is “What can we do about your allopurinol intolerance?”

        I’ve searched GoutPal for allopurinol intolerance. You can do the same search using the search box at the top right of every page. I’m not sure if any of those results pages will help you. Please have a look, and let me know.

        Normally, in cases of allopurinol intolerance, I recommend an alternative to allopurinol. Usually, I would suggest some kind of uricosuric, Krystexxa, or febuxostat. However, I know absolutely nothing about sourcing these drugs in South Africa. Certainly, I can see no obvious way to buy febuxostat or probenecid. However, there are many uricosurics that are used to treat other conditions. Your doctor might be able to supply these, but first you need a 24-hour urine test. I recommend arranging that urine test now. If you are a uric acid under-excreter, it makes treatment easier.

        Remember, untreated high uric acid is dangerous. So, we have to do something to get your uric acid safe. The last resort is allopurinol desensitization. It has been shown to be effective. In most countries, febuxostat is an easier choice. But allopurinol desensitization might be exactly what you need, Tony.

        Have a look at some existing information by searching GoutPal for allopurinol desensitization. If you agree with me that it might be useful, then I can help you and your doctor create a safe titration plan. Let me know what you think.

        I haven’t addressed the colchicine point. Let me know if my colchicine guidelines need clarification.

        Gout is often mistaken for Carpel Tunnel Syndrome. Or, gout causes it. Either way, we’ve got to get your uric acid safe. I can’t see your uric acid level. Do you have test results?

    • #1171
      GoutPal Victim

      Hello I have had very bad pain for about 2-4weeks sometimes in bed for days not able to walk the pain would be out of a 10 and I would say that it would actually be a 14 it’s that bad I had a blood test for Uric acid levels and mine was 0.45mmol/L (0.20-0.46) not sure what the numbers are in the brackets but I think maybe that’s the range it should be in Iam not sure but I looked at the gout table that u have and if I was in the USA I think mine would be in the high range Iam from Australia any help would be great Iam currently on no meds and I really don’t like any of the side affects of the NSAIDS , I dont want liver failure , kidney failure , heart attack, going blind
      These are just a few they are all things I can do with out .
      Will just have to stick the pain out with pain meds help from Keith Taylor or anyone would be great thanks.

    • #2171

      I am a runner(when gout is not disabling me). I have always had the problem of distinguishing a running injury from a gout flare up. I started on allopurinol on July 6th – so almost 3 months now. I read that one of the side affects of allopurinol can be joint aches and pains …. I have had this pain on the top and left side of my left foot on and off for a month. I cannot recall doing anything to cause the injury. But it persists – some days it is better than others. Thinking it is a running injury, I have been taken about 2 weeks off from running. But now I am not sure if it is a running injury or gout(I had a blood test end of last week – I got no phone call, so I am assuming my uric acid levels are acceptable) or (NOW!) a side effect of the allopurinol. My next attempt a a solution is to take no medication and become a vegetarian. Can anyone comment on my experience?

    • #2230
      GoutPal Victim

      Having read all the Goutpal info online, i would not stop taking allopurinol. You were prescribed this for a reason and flare ups can occur. Read every strand from Goutpal to get a full picture. Good luck. A bit of painwhich may subside is far preferable to further full on gout attacks.

      • #2236
        Keith Taylor

        Hey, Philip, thanks for that.

        I keep running GoutPal, because lots of gout sufferers still don’t get the help they need. For lots of reasons, they lose faith with their doctor’s advice. That can soon spark a descent to poor gout management choices. Often, from poor quality information on the Internet.

        I totally agree with your encouragement for sticking with prescribed gout treatment until it has had time to do it’s job. As well as your sensible warning about avoiding further gout attacks, I’d like to add:

        1. Those gout attacks will become more intense, more widespread, and last longer, until uric acid is made safe.
        2. Uric acid crystals lead to weakened joints and permanent joints.
        3. Uric acid deposits eventually spread to organs. This risks damage to skin, kidneys, heart. And, all other organs, except the brain.

        I hope gout sufferers will avoid becoming victims, and find a treatment that makes their uric acid safe. I’m delighted that you are encouraging them, Philip.

    • #2257
      Gary Noyes

      Hi, when you have a gout attack your blood uric acid should go up at least 1/2-1 point IE if your uric acid is usually 6.5 it should go up to 7.0-7.5 during the attack and for a few weeks after it depending on how severe the attack is as your body is making the uric acid at the same amount PLUS you joint is dumping more uric acid into your blood form the flair up. I have gout that flairs up in my knee and my uric acid go’s from 5.5 to 6.4 during and for a week after the attack subsides. My normal uric acid is 11.0 but I am controlling it with baking soda which keeps it around 5.5-5.9.

    • #2258
      Kurt Uric

      I have never had a gout attack or kidney stones. My doctor has had me on 300 mg of allopurinol per day apparently as a preventative measure. I have never changed my beer drinking habits which I enjoy on a regular basis. Three times a week 2 to 3 beers ea time. My annual blood test results now average 5.0 mg/dl.

      Have not experienced any side effects from the allopurinol however I just don’t like taking any drugs and would like to eliminate it. I am planning to cut the dosage in half for starters 150mg of allopurinol. I’ve also heard that some people have great success by drinking tart cherry juice to bring their uric acid levels under control.

      Anyone out there with similar experience.

      Kurt Uric

    • #2260

      Uric acid and food

      My Uric Acid is 11.6mg/dl. How i can reduce my uric acid. What food should i take and avoided to reduce my uric acid .

      Thanks, appreciated your feedback

    • #2283
      Gary Noyes

      Gout free for 21 years then took some cocoa and now full of gout

      I had gout real bad in 94 it was in all of my joints and my kidneys as I couldn’t take the gout medicines, I then found that baking soda would work so I started taking 1/2 TSP 3X daily and my uric acid went down from 11.0 to 5.5-5.9 it stayed this way for 21 years, and I never had any more gout flair ups, two months ago I started eating 1/2 TSP of cocoa powder once a day, for my heart, last week my right knee flared up with gout and swelled up so bad I couldn’t bend it, after 6 days it went down and I walked for one day and it flared up again with the pain in a different area, This lasted 3 days, and in the tail end of that I got several more sticks of pain around the knee cap and it is now so swollen I cant even bend it over one inch in either direction, I looked on the web about cocoa and gout and it appears that cocoa has been studied and found to prevent uric acid crystals from forming. It states that THEOBROMINE which is found in cocoa powder inhibits uric Acid crystallization. My question is, do I have uric acid crystals in my tissues around the joints that have been there for 21 years and never dissolved out and now the cocoa is dissolving them out?. My uric acid has been 5.5 the highest 6.1 for the past 21 years Can any one tell me if the cocoa dissolves the crystals as well as keeps them from forming?. NOT only that taking the cocoa powder has lowered my triglycerides from 180 to 60 MG I take simvastatin and at 80MG could never get them below 150 with I stopped eating sugar all together for 3 months, now I am on 20MG of simvastatin and my triglycerides are at 60. The cocoa powder must also have blood sugar lowering properties also, (is there a Doctor in the house that can answer these questions for me?.) The pain is terrible but if this is taking the rest of my gout out I will tolerate it tell it’s gone as the cocoa powder seems to have many health benefits

      • #2284
        Keith Taylor

        “is there a Doctor in the house that can answer these questions for me?”

        From the footer of every page on GoutPal:

        Information on GoutPal is provided by a gout patient to help you understand gout and related issues. Gout information is provided by a layman, with no medical training or qualifications. It should not be used for diagnosing or treating any health problem or disease. The information is given to help you understand your doctor’s advice and know what questions to ask. It is not a substitute for professional care. If you have an actual or suspected health problem, you should consult your doctor.

        My role is to help people manage uric acid and gout safely. Primarily, I do this by helping people learn the right questions to ask their doctors. Then, I offer to help them understand their doctor’s responses. I also offer other levels of gout support. But, there is no substitute for a strong relationship with your doctor.

    • #2338

      I was prescribed allopurinol and inducin and no labs were done at all. 6 months later I have liver damage and diabetes. I believe the gout meds were the cause. I’ve been taking a tablespoon of organic apple cider vinegar with mother every day and have had not one attack! No matter what I eat!

      • #2341


        With no labs done prior to being prescribed Allopurinol and inducin, how can you be 100% convinced they caused the damage to your liver? First off, that is extremely irresponsible of your doctor to have even done that in the first place. I would hazard to say that a Day 1 med school student would even know that you should NEVER, EVER prescribe medication to a patient without having blood work, or personal data to eliminate any contraindications that patient may have. That’s just stupid and/or lazy.

        I’m in no way a rep for a drug company, but some questions….how old are you? Are you in good physical condition? Do you have a family history of liver disease or liver problems (i.e. cirrohsis, hepatitis, hepatic issues)? Without data or blood work to substantiate underlying liver issues, it’s difficult to be 100% sure if Allopurinol/Inducin did that to you. It’s possible, don’t get me wrong, but if you had damage prior to being prescribed the medications, you should never have been given them in the first place….and that falls squarely on your doctor. Shame on him or her

      • #2348
        Keith Taylor

        Wouldn’t it be interesting if we had statistics on why gout sufferers become Gout Victims? I guess, I’ll get some next year, as I develop that support plan more.

        In this case, it looks like the doctor has not followed latest professional guidelines. Though, I’ve seen similar cases where the patient has not listened properly. Or, chosen to ignore their doctor’s advice.

        So, there are many reasons for failing to control uric acid. But, I feel the most important first step, for gout victims, is to understand the dangers. Especially in this case, where it looks like ACV abuse might add to longterm health problems.

        Unfortunately, Patrick, we both read about that failure to consider longterm dangers, far too often. And, the saddest part is, it’s much harder to deal with the consequences when you are older.

    • #2339

      I was put on allopurinol and indocin and they cause liver damage and diabetes. I stopped with both and started taking Apple cider vinager in water. 1 tbsp with 8 oz water. Not one flare-up no matter what I eat. It even helps mid flare-up!

    • #2340

      The doc prescribed me allopurinol and indocin because my flare-ups were getting worse and worse and more frequent. 6 months later I’ve got diabetes and liver damage. Quit the four meds cold turkey and started drinking a tbsp of organic apple cider vinegar with mother and I haven’t had one flare-up, no matter what I eat! It works better than the four meds. It even works within 30-40 mins DURING a flare-up!

    • #2353
      Keith Taylor

      I mentioned that the important first step for Gout Victims is to acknowledge that untreated excess uric acid is dangerous. Coincidentally, I just found ‘Tophaceous Gout of the Knee: Revisiting MRI Patterns in 30 Patients’
      That shows damaged joints, and I’ll review it as time allows. Encouragingly, there are new procedures for repairing damaged cartilage. So, I might also review ‘FDA approves first autologous cellularized scaffold for the repair of cartilage defects of the knee’

      Of course, it’s better to control uric acid before it damages your joints. So, any Gout Victims who want personal help to avoid damage, should start their own personal uric acid control therapy now. Start a new topic to start your recovery.

    • #2493
      GoutPal Victim

      After my 3rd gout attack on my big toe I did not want gout to rule my life. I also did not want to take medication or change my diet. I drink the juice of 2 or 3 lemons each day or so. When I start to feel an ache in my foot I drink lemon juice and the ache goes away.

    • #2942
      GoutPal Victim

      I have had dozens–if not hundreds–of attacks in the 20 years that I have bee diagnosed withy gout. Like most people, it started with my big toe, but now it’s happening in my elbows and shoulders, and even as I type this I can’t move my shoulder without a lightning bolt of pain. I’ve tried all kinds of stuff, but I always like to hear the advice of different people. What supplements do you recommend for acute attacks?

      Thank you,


      • #3086
        GoutPal HelpDesk

        Hi John,

        Keith always recommends that you start reading GoutPal at Introducing You And GoutPal. Which, is the first item on the menu at GoutPal.com. Because, it explains how GoutPal works for you.

        If you do not want to invest time reading about how GoutPal works, you should start with Questions for Gout Sufferers. Then, follow the prompts from there. Because they will help you decide if you want a structured gout management plan. Or, if you just want to continue with casual gout help.

    • #4041
      Brad Keck

      Is pain climbing stairs from gout in knee?

      Hi All,

      I have high serum Uric acid and frequently get gout in the classic big toe joint – I have started experiencing a pain in one knee when I climb stairs. There is no obvious injury otherwise, and I wonder if any one else experiences this from gout.

      Your experience much appreciated.


      • #4045
        Keith Taylor

        Hi Brad,

        My short answer is: gout spreads to every joint. Because uric acid travels throughout your body in the blood stream. Then, it starts to form uric acid crystals. Usually, uric acid crystals start in the cooler joints. But, eventually, uric acid crystals damage every joint. Unless you take action to control your uric acid levels.

        Finally, uric acid crystals spread beyond joints. Usually, skin is affected first. With lumps, called tophi, appearing under the skin. Then bursting through. But, eventually, uric acid crystals damage all organs except the brain. Leading to kidney disease, heart disease, etc. Joint damage and organ damage continue every day that your excess uric acid goes untreated. Even on days where you have no pain symptoms.

        The good news, Brad, is that uric acid is very easy to manage unless you have other health complications. So, see your doctor as soon as you can, and start uric acid lowering treatment.

        If you want any clarification of the points I’ve made, please ask. Similarly, ask if you want help getting the right uric acid lowering treatment plan from your doctor. Here’s some scary gout pics to stir you into action…

        Gouty Tophi in Larynx

        Uric acid lumps in the voice box: Gouty Tophi in Larynx

        Gouty Tophi in Colon

        Uric acid lumps in the gut: Gouty Tophi in Colon.

    • #6551
      James Clark

      Please let me know how to lower my uric acid without allopurinol

      I have had gout for about ten years or maybe more. I would get an outbreak once a year or so at first. It had progressed to an outbreak once a month. I just recently had an outbreak lasting 6 weeks. It kinda jumped from joint to joint in my right foot then to my ankles well it felt like my Achilles tendon I’m not sure

      Anyway, as soon as the pain subsided my left side like my hip area started hurting so bad I can barely walk. I also have back problems. So I thought it may be my back. Anyway, I am affected in both feet in every little joint both ankles, both knees, both elbows, and my left ring finger. Also, I can’t afford the colchicine so I’ve been using indomethacin. But it isn’t working anymore.

      And every time I take allopurinol I get a multiple joint outbreaks that last till I stop taking it. My uric acid levels are above 13.

      I don’t know what to do! If anyone has any advice I’d really appreciate it thank you.

      • #6552
        simon watmore

        I’ve just read your post this morning and I had to reply, I’ve had gout getting on for 15 years now, and similar symptoms to what you’ve had, but I’ve only had it in the feet and ankles, it sounds like you have it more severe, I’ve started taking Allopurinol about 3 months ago, I started on 100mg taking one twice a day, then I upped the dose slightly to 150mg twice a day by cutting in half a 300mg tablet, I started getting pains in the legs in bed and thats been causing concern , so without consulting anyone I decided to stop taking allupurinol, my ankle swelled up within half a day, and I had further aches and pains, so I’ve started taking it again, and I upped the dose yesterday to 150mg three times a day , its early days but my symptoms have improved I didn’t have as much leg pains and my ankle has gone back down, I think your only way of getting rid of this nasty complaint when its as bad as what we’ve got it, is taking allupurinol but getting the right dosage that suits you, and that might have to be through trail and error, I’ve read up on it on this site and it states once you start taking allupurinol don’t stop, until you haven’t had an attack for at least 6 months then you may be able to take a vacation from it , you can’t allow it to go on the acid crystals are damaging your joints , I hope this is of help all the best Simon.

      • #6554

        Uric acid in the blood testing above 13 mg/dl seems quite dangerous. That could damage more than just your joints.
        Unfortunately allopurinol is not a quick cure. You shouldn’t quit the drug or adjust the dose based on the symptoms you get after a few days or even weeks. You simply have to stick to it if you want to be cured. Blood tests will tell if the dosage is appropriate.
        If you’ve had gout for ten years, it could take a year or more for the cure to work. And that might be a hard year because cures such as allopurinol are known to trigger gout attacks during the first months.
        There is unfortuntely no superior alternative to allopurinol in most cases. In some cases though, a combination of UA-lowering drugs or a more radical and very expensive intravenous therapy might be appropriate.
        Taking enough allopurinol is critical however. Increasing the dose slowly is usually recommended. But the final dosage is insufficient, you may be putting yourself through hell for nothing.

        What many gout sufferers need to take along with allpurinol during the first months of the therapy is a drug that suppresses the immune system’s reaction to uric acid crystals. One such drug is indomethacin but it is a dangerous drug to take in large doses and on a regular basis. Possibly you could take a larger dose or a safer relative to that drug for a limited amount of time after restarting allopurinol. Colchicine is another such drug (which may in some cases be combined with the likes of indomethacin). There are other anti-arthitis drugs people use to control symptoms.
        Colchicine is not an inherently expensive drug. If you’re asked to pay a lot of money for it, you may have been given the wrong prescription. If you can’t get your doctor to write you a prescription for the cheaper brand, see if you can get a load of the stuff across whichever border is closest to you (in many countries, colchicine is dirt cheap). If obtaining colchicne is not practical for you, ask your doctor about an alternative which isn’t a NSAID (hint: remove the N from that acronym).

    • #6686
      tommy whitlow

      can someone tell me can I eat fried salmon. I take my gout medication I have taken for two years I haven’t had any problem.

      [posted via reply to update email list From: [email protected] on behalf of GoutPal Gout Facts
      Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 8:50 AM]

    • #8084
      Patrick PK

      Kill Gout with Lime!

      Hi Everyone.
      I suffered with gout for YEARS! On expensive meds. I once missed 3 weeks of work due to Gout. I used to get buy a LOT of expensive medications. I felt helpless and hopeless. I knew I better not drink not even half a glass of cranberry juice because of the immense pain it caused me………….

      Until…………… I followed this doctor on Youtube: Dr. Eric Berg.

      He provided a tip and its worth GOLD:

      I have tested it now several times and for me it WORKS every time!!!

      Squeeze one lime in half a cup of water, drink it down, and watch the severe pain subside as the crystallized particles that are formed by gout are broken down.

      Try it. I hope it helps you.

      BTW, I never spend a dime on “Gout Medications anymore”……….!!!

      The reason I posted this? My wife has been as surprised as I am, and told me: Have you thought of sharing this with others who have been suffering. So there.

      [admin note: If you are too shrewd to take medical advice from YouTube, a better starting point is Citrus for Gout โ€“ Natural Lower Uric Acid. Then discuss that with your doctor, and share your experience in a new topic that includes less hyperbole and more common sense.]

      • #8085
        d q

        That’s great and potentially something to try but;

        Have you considered dealing with the underlining issue of why you are getting gout attacks in the first place?

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