malic acid ?

This topic contains 10 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Keith Taylor 11 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #3223

    urankjj .
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    Can supplementing with malic acid help with uric acid levels and or slow crystal formation ? Seems to be very little research out there on this.

    I am a 5+ yr gout sufferer not on meds, trying to control through diet only.

    Thank you for all of your help….

  • #3224

    Keith Taylor
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    How much have you managed to lower your uric acid by so far? By which I mean, what are your uric acid levels over the 5 years you’ve been trying to control uric acid through diet?

    Malic Acid for Gout photo

    Will Malic Acid help your Gout?

  • #3231

    urankjj .
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    Only one time was uric acid included in my blood work in those 5 yrs. That was two month ago. And only because of my own suggestion that it should be screened for.(Isn’t health care great today) it was 6.9, quite high I think. I have had many crippling attacks in those 5 yrs. About 18 months ago I changed my diet drastically. No red meat, no seafood, no HFCS, (high fructose corn syrup), witch is in everything now-a-days. Had great results, no flare-ups at all. Until I ate fish three times in one week about 10 weeks ago. Within days a major flare-up in my right foot. Off work for 1 week. I am a 61 yr old male in otherwise good health. Anyway, do you have any input or info on supplementing with malic acid ? Thank you.

  • #3273

    Keith Taylor
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    Ŧallars: Ŧ 1010.87
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    Thanks for that extra information, urankjj. Hopefully, it helps me frame my answer in a way that is relevant to your situation. But, we’re still getting to know each other. So, if I get it wrong, please just ask me to clarify.

    Firstly, I have bad news. Because, there is no gout research into malic acid. Except for a one line mention of a German book – Der Apfel (The Apple: A tried and tested new home remedy) – in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition. But, I can’t verify the claim in that journal that:

    it is known that malic acid dissolves uric acid, and is therefore an important source of relief when someone suffers from gout or rheumatism (Buchter-Weisbrodt and Schöber, 1998)

    Unfortunately, I cannot find an English translation of that book. So, I’m not certain how true that claim is. Also, if it is true, I wonder why there has been no pure gout research into effects of malic acid on uric acid.

    However, there is some verifiable science that malic acid should help gout sufferers. Because, according to one investigation I found (“Malic acid supplementation increases urinary citrate excretion and urinary pH”), malic acid can improve urine pH. So, it should help gout sufferers in 2 ways:
    1. Alkaline urine prevents uric acid kidney stones.
    2. Alkaline urine promotes uric acid excretion.

    Before I continue, I should stress that I prefer healthy diet to achieve alkaline urine. Because I believe using supplements to mask unhealthy diet will lead to other health problems beyond gout. But, you might have a different view.

    Thanks to your question, I can see that there is lots of new research on the benefits of alkaline urine for gout sufferers. So, I ought to try and find time to review it. But, that’s a long way from saying malic acid is good for gout. Because, you need to consider total diet. Also, you need to measure uric acid with, and without, malic acid supplementation.

    At the moment, urankjj, you seem to be making positive steps to control your gout. But, I hope you don’t mind me saying, your approach could be more scientific. Because, you cannot judge how successful gout treatment is based on short term gout flare symptoms. You can only manage gout by testing uric acid and comparing results with interventions. Now, it’s up to you how you take that. I mean to say that I can help you with a more carefully planned approach, if you want that.

    But if you prefer to manage gout in your own way, that’s perfectly OK too. Then, you can ask me questions as they occur to you. Because, I’m here to help in whichever way suits you best.

  • #4727

    urankjj .
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    Thank you for your detailed reply. Sorry that I disappeared for 3+ months. But life seems to get in the way of a lot of stuff. Anyway, since there is so little research on Malic acid supplementation and it’s effect on gout I decided to go the genie pig route myself, and I have been taking one 600 mg capsule of malic acid, (the label say’s,from apples), daily, plus one sometimes two, 450mg cap’s of apple cider vinegar, daily, since my last post. No major attacks at all. Only some minor flare-ups that I think may have been related to uric acid build up. But I’ve had no new blood work either to substantiate anything. I will be going in for complete bloodwork and a routine check-up within the next 14 day’s. I will get back to you with the numbers and results. Take care and stay gout-free……

    • #4729

      Keith Taylor
      Keymaster
      Ŧallars: Ŧ 1010.87
      GoutPal Scholar Badge Rank: Scholar

      Hey, Urankjj, don’t worry about taking a break. Because we all need one from time to time. So, it’s good to see you back.

      Good luck with your guinea pig experiments. I hope you can find a way forward. But, if you need any help assessing symptoms etc, just ask.

      I look forward to reading your blood test results. Because, without those, all I can do is generalize. But, you need specific treatments to make your uric acid safe. Also, don’t forget that each day uric acid is much over 6mg/dL, you will get more uric acid crystals forming. And that happens even on days where you have no symptoms.

      By the way, your topic about malic acid generates a lot of interest. There are hundreds of people reading this each month. Though, none have joined in yet, which is not unusual. So, no pressure, but there are probably thousands of people by now who are waiting for you to prove, one way or the other if malic acid helps gout. How do you like them apples! 😉

  • #4837

    urankjj .
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    Well, here is the bad news I guess, (uric acid, serum

    7.6 mg/dL
    4.0-8.0
    completed
    N
    07/27/2017). The rest of the blood work was fine, all no flags. The only good news is that I’ve had no gout attacks since the last post. So maybe that means that the steady intake of Malic acid supplementation really did have an effect on uric acid crystal formation in my joints.( Have another Apple), I can’t prove that, I’m just relaying to you what has been happening. I also have gone to about a 80% plant based diet, no meat, but eggs and dairy. Hope this helps somebody somewhere… take Care…….

  • #4893

    urankjj .
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    No reply at all, hmmm,? I truly do count the days that I am gout attack-free as a blessing at this point. And anything at all that can contribute to that,(malic acid) or whatever, needs to be talked about and or further researched for the sake of gout free living.

  • #4896

    nobody
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    There’s not enough data yet to know if malic acid is doing anything in your experiment because pain is not a reliable indication to what’s happening except in the long run (and even then, it’s not precise).
    In the meantime, your test result suggest your uric acid level is dangerously high. Possibly malic acid prevents crystallization but since we don’t know that it does, you are taking chances by volunteering to be a guinea pig.
    Since you are doing experiments, thanks for having posted your data! Maybe be it’ll help someone.

  • #4901

    urankjj .
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    Well, at least I know that nobody cares. wink. I’m sorry, I just had to say that. Anyway I’ll just keep going on with my program, for better or worse, and report back to this post with any updates.just wondering

  • #4902

    Keith Taylor
    Keymaster
    Ŧallars: Ŧ 1010.87
    GoutPal Scholar Badge Rank: Scholar

    Ha Ha urankjj, “nobody cares”! 😀

    I’ve been expecting something like that ever since our fine friend chose his unusual username. But, it still caught me by surprise. Anyway, please add me to your list of people who care. I didn’t realize you were waiting for a response. But, if you want to attract my attention, please use a mention. That is when you type an @ followed by my username, keith. There must be no space between @ and username. Just please don’t overuse it. Because it generates an email to me, and I’m already struggling to control my inbox!

    Anyway, I share your disappointment with your uric acid test result. But, I wonder if it’s malic acid related. Because I don’t think herbal gout remedies are strong enough to allow you to eat badly.

    For example, gout patients on allopurinol can eat what they like. Because allopurinol removes most of the uric acid risk from food (simplistic view). But, if they continue with unhealthy eating, they’ll end up with stroke, heart disease, etc.

    For gout herbalists, I think you have to also eat a gout-friendly diet, as herbal medicines are less powerful. But 80% plant based doesn’t sound too healthy to me. Because that means 20% of your food is animal based. Or, even worse, chemical-based. Now, I might be misunderstanding the detail here. So, urankjj, how about starting another topic where we can discuss if your diet is gout-friendly?

    After that, if you have a good gout foundation diet, maybe we could look at combining malic acid with other uric acid lowering herbal medicine. Because combination treatments have proved to be effective in the pharma world. Eg, gout patients commonly support allopurinol with probenecid as they work on different aspects of excess uric acid.

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