February 17, 2021 at 10:07 am #10247Zachery ProchaskaParticipant
New to this though I suspect some pains in the distant past may have been the baby version of this. In fact I only know that I have gout because my doctor visually and physically examined my toe and described it as appearing to be a “classic” example of a gout attack. Considering I was stressing my body at the time with new exercise and weight loss (and just plain old stress itself!). I’m very sure he is right.
Anyway, trying to keep attacks from continuing as I’ve had more since then (lots of weight loss and exercise since then and I need to keep that up) and am looking for sources of protein that are super low in purines or are don’t produce uric acid for whatever reason.
I came across a tidbit in this article: https://www.goutpal.com/9087/is-very-low-purine-gout-diet-possible/
“Eggs and milk are zero purine foods.”
I assume this is referring to eggs and milk not having the specific types of purines that make uric acid production more likely mentioned in another article: https://www.goutpal.com/gout-diet/purine-rich-foods/
“Zollner’s analysis of purine metabolism suggests that xanthine and hypoxanthine are the most effective purines for increasing uric acid.”
But a google search of the site didn’t seem to find a article specifically discussing the glory of protein sources with “zero purine”s (bad purines?) which I found odd but google searches don’t always work perfectly.
Does anyone know if what these to tidbits imply, that eggs and milk can be consumed in mass without risk of increased “bad” purines and therefore uric acid production, is the correct interpretation?
I need a food source dense in complete proteins (so I don’t have to eat so much I can’t move!) in order to build up my muscles. It is prohibitively expensive to get enough through entirely plant based foods/supplements though I am making due with that for now. And too much soy sounds like a bad idea if you read enough. I’m already way above the recommended weekly allowance for soy though I splurged for non-soy supplement powder to try and keep it down to a low roar.
If eggs and milk based products have no “bad” purines and therefore can be eaten with impunity by gout sufferers looking to build muscles that would be a help in both added protein and flavor to help choke down all those beans and powders! LOL
Thanks for any help clarifying these articles on the web page. I appreciate you spending the time.
February 20, 2021 at 5:12 am #10309Keith TaylorParticipant
Sorry Zachary – your post got held due to some poor forum settings that I’m investigating.
I need to do a proper investigation of my piss-poor “Eggs and milk are zero purine foods” statement. So please bear with me.
In the meantime, I’d like to say that purine management through diet is difficult. Because you have to account for how food affects uric acid inputs and outputs. Also, how your internally generated uric acid from cell metabolism affects this.
It’s not impossible, but I’d say you absolutely must have uric acid excretion tests as well as blood tests. The frequency of those tests is just one item in a long list of decisions to be made by you and your professional advisors.
So I guess my first question is, which health professionals are you working with? I ask because that gives me some context when framing my future replies.
February 20, 2021 at 10:45 am #10311nobodyParticipant
Yes, as far as purines and their effect on uric acid are concerned, eggs and milk are not only fine to consume in large amounts but possibly the lowest-purine nutritious foods out there.
I’ve been using the same Japanese paper as a reference for hypoxanthine and so forth but really, it’s obvious why eggs and milk would be fine!
That said… consuming too much eggs and milk would potentially be unhealthy for other reasons and could even increase your uric acid if you ate ridiculous amount. As Keith says, uric acid is more complicated than just purines. If you’re not well-informed about nutrition (and it doesn’t sound like you are!), do NOT follow fad diets and other strange diets advocated by unaccountable persons on the web and elsewhere. I wish the advice of professionals was much better but that is unfortunately not the case everywhere. Still, following the advice of responsible professionals is probably your best bet even though you might decide not to follow it 100%.
I also checked the links in the first post and I must say I don’t understand how Keith concluded from Zollner that adenine doesn’t raise SUA (I realize that’s not exactly what Keith said, but that implicit conclusion is clearly the basis for the table which followed the mention of Zollner). We know it does in the lab. And if I found the right paper, it even mentions adenine being converted to UA, xanthine or hypoxanthine.
February 22, 2021 at 11:21 am #10316Keith TaylorParticipant
Somewhere in my efforts to understand purine metabolism, I got it into my head that some purine bases were irrelevant. In fact, I cocked up. Even worse, I realized this some time ago, but never finished my plan to revise all my purine content.
So I plan to include all purine bases and total purines for everything. Then people can discuss that with their doctors or whoever else might show an interest.
Anyway, back to Zachery’s question about my eggs and milk line. The full quotation is from a paragraph in that Japanese report that I failed to reference [hangs head in shame]
Thus, foods containing small amounts of total purine and those containing mainly adenine and guanine are considered to be beneficial for hyperuricemic patients and those with gout. These include eggs, dairy food, cereals, beans, vegetables, mushrooms, and soybean products. Eggs and dairy products contain almost zero purine. In particular, dairy products are recommended dietary foods for patients with gout. Milk proteins such as casein also reduce uric acid serum concentrations by increasing the excretion of uric acid. A population-based case-control study showed that calcium was inversely associated with plasma urate concentration. The risk of gout has been shown to be low in individuals who consume plenty of dairy products. Indeed, US and British guidelines for gout recommend the consumption of these foods.
From: Kaneko, Kiyoko, Yasuo Aoyagi, Tomoko Fukuuchi, Katsunori Inazawa, and Noriko Yamaoka. “Total purine and purine base content of common foodstuffs for facilitating nutritional therapy for gout and hyperuricemia.” Biological and Pharmaceutical Bulletin (2014): b13-00967.
February 22, 2021 at 11:45 am #10317nobodyParticipant
Well, I have been considering guanine as irrelevant. That of course may be a mistake on my part so exercise due diligence.
And as the Japanese paper says, even adenine isn’t all that important. Still, I do take it into account even though I give it a low weighting. In addition, it’s often found in similar amounts to guanine to which I give a zero weighting so I do concur that the foods very low in xanthine and hypoxanthine typically have a much smaller effect on uric acid than their total purine content would imply. But since some people eat much larger amounts of vegetables and legumes than the average, I’m not prepared to gloss over the difference between “much smaller” and zero. I think veggie types do matter, as does the difference between legumes and eggs/dairy.
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